Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ

Board index » Everything




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post Posted: February 28th, 2014, 3:16 am 
 

Joined: February 28th, 2013, 3:23 am
Posts: 2853
Location: Oklahoma, United States
I started from ground 0 on c++ with chili's tutorials, I feel he has done a great job in structuring the material. He starts off small and covers all the basics of the language. That is what every other tutorial I've seen do, biggest difference is chili uses a graphical approach with his framework. You get to see graphical results not just a stupid console program.

I have taken some online classes and let me assure you, you learn on your own. They tell you which pages to cover, links to videos to watch and test on Friday. So it's no different than watching chili's videos and having to think for yourself on a few things. That is why he takes it slow and gives homework assignments at the end of a few of his beginner episodes. No one can force any one to learn something. That sounds like what you are wanting, is someone to wave their magic wand and presto you know how to program...it isn't going to happen like that. Look at how many people are here venturing out and making little games here and there. They are learning beyond what chili is even covering at the moment because chili has given them a great start and the confidence to do so.

I don't think chili himself should have to create a thread for each video for "debate".

One I'd rather him spend more time on making the next video.
Two, what is there to debate?
Three, if you feel you must discuss it then please feel free to start a new thread after each video you watch. I'm sure it might help some, as long as you are respectful and are genuinely wanting to learn something that was or wasn't covered in the video that chili didn't "get back to".

_________________
If you think paging some data from disk into RAM is slow, try paging it into a simian cerebrum over a pair of optical nerves. - gameprogrammingpatterns.com


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: February 28th, 2014, 1:27 pm 
User avatar

Joined: February 23rd, 2014, 9:37 pm
Posts: 73
albino i think you didn't quite understand what i meant. I'm not saing what Chili is doing, its no good... not at all. I would contradict myself.

Let me put it another way... Chili teached how to create a script for circles and squares collision. What if he didn't? How many would be able to figure that out by themselves just from learning how declaration in C++ works? See what i'm getting to?

You just confirmed what i was telling. That "stupid console program" is what you do in an academic environment. Doesn't mean they are not useful in other things that not game development. There are n applications for a language.

Chili can just teach you so much on a 2h video. That's different from classes, because you have more time. And that would be different to Chili's videos if they would have more time so he could teach different algorithms to different problems. But you don't need him to do that.

I'm not saying that Chili, should do the thread. God no. I say we should. You are right about one thing... no one can make you a better programmer but yourself, but people can guide you in the direction you want to go if they put simpler problems for you to get where you want. You see users examples of games in his videos, that are more advanced than what he was teaching. That just proves that what he is teaching is a great platform for people to start, but it is usefull if you already know something about programming.

Recap: Not saying that what Chili is doing, is wrong. Just different from a usual way of teaching a language. And as i've said, for me, it's a better way of teaching. But i had some experience. Not in C++, i've started C++ from zero as you, but i had experience in other languages. Most recently Haskell and C.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: February 28th, 2014, 4:50 pm 
 

Joined: February 28th, 2013, 3:23 am
Posts: 2853
Location: Oklahoma, United States
Let me ask you this, since you brought it up I'll continue with the example of circle and square collision, do you think that it is only possible to do with c++? It's more logic than code. It's great that chili has gone over some things that aren't related to just the language, but he wouldn't have to as it's outside the scope of teaching a language. In school, when I was taking Spanish classes, their main goal was to teach vocabulary, having you remember words and their translations. Very little was taught in sentence structure. If chili taught like that it would be like chili teaching you the commands and leaving it at that. He goes a step further and teaches you how the commands can fit together. Then he goes a step further on occasion and teaches you something like collision that does use the commands but is unrelated to learning the language.

As far as him spending more time on anything, which I'm not understanding because in previous posts you make it sound like you don't want to sit through hours of video, that's what the forum is for. Maybe it's not him that will answer a question that you have, but there are quite a few people on here that are pretty knowledgeable. College classes are usually only up to 3 hours in a day and maybe 3 times a week for that one class, so yes you get more. To me that's 9 hours a week that I have to "endure", not enjoy. And again, when I was taking my classes online, I was rushed to complete assignments from ALL the classes that I was enrolled in, because their were assignments due each Wednesday and Sunday, and posts had to be made on or before those days as well. I was sent the software and books, given links to videos to watch for each weeks lessons. My professors didn't teach me anything. Some of the assignments required me to use Photoshop and at the time Macromedia ShockWave. I had never used the software before, so I had to spend some time learning as I was doing the assignments. I wasn't taught how to use the software first then given an assignment.

I had a pretty horrible experience with college, mostly because I chose to do online classes I think. I had multiple student advisors, each one lied to me and didn't keep me informed on when classes started or send me something letting me know when to order books and materials. I had a full time job and trying to do full time courses and raise a baby, it was too much and they all said that I wasn't managing my time wisely, so I dropped out. Now I have $12,000 or more in student loans and wasn't taught anything from a single professor. Fuck you Westwood College.

I have tried looking through text tutorials, I couldn't and still can't understand them. I have to have videos and someone explaining it to me as they go along. I don't want a copy/paste tutorial, that doesn't do anything for me. So what I do is watch the videos, then I watch and follow along, then I experiment with the code. I did that for the first 30 videos, 22 in the beginner series and the next 8 in the intermediate series. I have no sympathy for anyone who can't sit through his videos or say there isn't enough content. I have gone over his last 8 videos in the intermediate series several time just to try to understand the content while at the same time trying to put it to use. I haven't followed along in the platformer tutorials and that is probably slowing me down.

So here's my advice. Watch the videos starting from Lesson 1 beginner. If you understand it great move on to number 2. If you understand c++ programming, then you should be able to make a simple game using the knowlege you have and the framework that chili provides. If you can't do that then you don't understand c++ programming, continue on to lesson 3, and then 4 and so on. Like you said, by lesson 10 or 12 some, not most, have picked up on the language and how it works and have started creating their own games. It's because not only do they know the language, they might also know physics or trigonometry or geometry that allows them to understand how the program should act, they just needed to know which commands to use. Myself, I have had to look up a lot of trigonometry because I have forgotten it from school 15 years ago. So, not only have I had to learn C++ I also had to relearn trig.

As far as learning how to build your own framework, man you are going to need to know why things work in c++ first before venturing into that realm. DirectX and Windows API's use pointers and pointers to pointers everywhere. Sometimes you need the address of an object and others you might need the object and others you might need the address of the pointer to the object. Does that sound like something chili should have started with, when people are coming to you to learn how to program, would you start off with something that difficult to understand? No, God no. You start them off with PutPixel( x, y, red, green, blue) and tell them to run it and see what happens, the tell them to change x to 300 and see what happens. Then you tell them that X is a variable and can be any number.

This post is getting long, I feel I should start a journal, Ravings of a Mad Programmer. Seriously, I'm not understanding what you want out of this. He hasn't finished his tutorials, he has a real job so can't spend all day doing these tutorials, doesn't get paid to do these tutorials, doesn't ask for money and when he has a chance he responds to the forum posts, and even though he said he probably wouldn't respond to Youtube posts I think I have seen him post on there somewhat recently. So buck up buddy, buckle down and get to it. Break down the barrier that maybe stopping you or slowing you down from learning and watch the vids, read some websites learn some math and practice your heart out.

_________________
If you think paging some data from disk into RAM is slow, try paging it into a simian cerebrum over a pair of optical nerves. - gameprogrammingpatterns.com


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: February 28th, 2014, 5:51 pm 
User avatar

Joined: February 23rd, 2014, 9:37 pm
Posts: 73
albino once again i've never said Chili should take more time explaining stuf on videos... I said his method is different from a school and that is what the school system does. I can only compare it to my school system in Portugal.

And i can assure you that they don't give you books to read or videos to watch. You have teachers that probably don't even work as fulltime teachers and they know multiple languages. Imagine a Chili teacher, but they had to follow a script and rules. In here they teach you the basis, then give you problems to solve, and then you talk about those problems. I can assure you, that what Chili as spoken on every beginers class videos, you talk about it in classes where i'm from. We don't have online classes here. The fucked up thing about their method is that most of the guys only learn algorithms. They just go to class, don't do shit and just copy the result and "Hey, now i know how my program does this". It's less dynamic if that makes any sense.

About the loans... if i told you i pay 1000€ (probably 1500$) a year for tuition, and if i do all the classes at first try, it only takes 3 year to get engineer degree, you probably would be surprised too. :)


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: February 28th, 2014, 7:07 pm 
 

Joined: February 28th, 2013, 3:23 am
Posts: 2853
Location: Oklahoma, United States
Very surprised. Like I said I don't understand what you are trying to get at. Yes chili's approach is different than in class, it's not interactive in real time. That's what the forum is for I guess. So, what is it that you want to know? What do you want to get from these tutorials, that you don't feel you are getting? Is it the homework? I've already suggested that you can come to the forum and discuss the topics learned in the videos. The reason I have responded the way you have is because of your previous comments about wanting to skip here and there to different videos and it doesn't sound like you want to put in the time and effort. As far as structure, I've already explained in the previous post that there is structure, he starts off simple and progressively gets deeper in.

Learning algorithms to have a pixel move across the screen or objects colliding with each other is like icing on the cake is the way I see it. It's like this. To have a pixel move across the screen, you need to change the coordinates that the pixel is drawn. That shouldn't have to be discussed, seems pretty straight forward. So when in lesson one chili has you use the PutPixel function and you change the coordinates you realize, "hay, that's how to get the pixel to move." now you ask, how do I make it move on it's own or how do I make more pixels? He moves on to show that writing PutPixel calls over and over would be very time consuming, so he teaches you about loops. Now you can create more pixels. The frame gets refreshed because it's in a loop of being cleared, drawn then displayed, so now all you need to do is have the X, and Y values change every frame, bam you figure out how to make the pixel move across the screen.

The process of experimenting and asking "what if I do this" is just as much a teaching tool as someone showing what tools to use. Yes, it would be great if Chili had a live broadcast stream that we could log into and experience all this live and be able to ask questions...we won't go down that road again since we both understand each other on why that wouldn't happen. So he next best thing is again here on the forums.

So to sum up what I said.
Will this series make you a pro...not by itself, you have to put in the work.
Does it teach you to program in C++...yes, mostly, there are more advanced stuff that chili hasn't gone over and maybe never will.
Is there structure...yes, it starts off with the assumption that you know absolutely nothing about the language, though having prior programming knowledge does help.
Is there assignments...yes, in some videos chili has homework or challenges at the end, though he says that you should basically come up with your own homework and not to rely on him giving any...paraphrasing by the way.
Is there discussion about the assignments...short answer is no, long answer is if you need to discuss anything covered in the video you can always come to the forum and ask.

I think I covered everything that I can remember from this thread. Glad to have you here, it let me do a lot of thinking about the course or series of chili's. I hope you stick around and give it a chance, maybe you will learn to program before your friends that have been at it for 5-6 months and you can show them where you learned it, bring on the newbies.

_________________
If you think paging some data from disk into RAM is slow, try paging it into a simian cerebrum over a pair of optical nerves. - gameprogrammingpatterns.com


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: February 28th, 2014, 10:55 pm 
User avatar

Joined: February 23rd, 2014, 9:37 pm
Posts: 73
I've never said i was skiping a video... i did said the absolute opposite of that! I guess you didn't understand what i've said or maybe i've said it wrong(?).

I've said i already know C (i know it, i don't need to put in the effort to learn something i already know) but i'm watching the beginner level videos anyway. The beginner level is about C. Understand that i'm not trying to change anything. I am just giving an opinion. I was just commenting with Pixel255 or what ever is name was, that maybe for some one that has zero knowledge from a programming language, would have difficulties catching up so fast. You need months, if not years of practice to "master" a language.

I was never against this method. Never. I've said it's perfect for me. But in my opinion, maybe someone who never heard a fucking line of code, will have difficulties to catch up with Chili's videos. I imagine someone who dropout listening to the equations of how to calculate a distance between points and run away...

But that's my opinion... you don't have to agree with it. You just have to respect it.

And thank you for the welcome. I'll be around. :) I'll try to have some creation posted here in the next 30 days. Let me see what i can up with :P

Peace!


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: March 1st, 2014, 9:44 am 
 

Joined: February 28th, 2013, 3:23 am
Posts: 2853
Location: Oklahoma, United States
Wow, I went back and reread all the posts, you aren't even the same guy I thought you were. I think there was another thread that I was thinking of, though I still feel that anyone can learn the language from these videos and probably a lot faster than in a school setting like you said, as long as you don't just copy what he does. Sorry about the confusion. God what a "doh" moment.

_________________
If you think paging some data from disk into RAM is slow, try paging it into a simian cerebrum over a pair of optical nerves. - gameprogrammingpatterns.com


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: March 1st, 2014, 5:54 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 14th, 2012, 5:07 pm
Posts: 399
albinopapa wrote:
Wow, I went back and reread all the posts, you aren't even the same guy I thought you were. I think there was another thread that I was thinking of, though I still feel that anyone can learn the language from these videos and probably a lot faster than in a school setting like you said, as long as you don't just copy what he does. Sorry about the confusion. God what a "doh" moment.

:lol: was reading the posts and i must say i kinda realized u must be mistaking the threads :))
at one point i even scrolled up to see i'f i'm reading the thread i clicked on :lol:


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: March 1st, 2014, 7:23 pm 
User avatar

Joined: February 23rd, 2014, 9:37 pm
Posts: 73
viruskiller wrote:
:lol: was reading the posts and i must say i kinda realized u must be mistaking the threads :))
at one point i even scrolled up to see i'f i'm reading the thread i clicked on :lol:



I started doubting of my english skills for a moment :lol:

BTW, let me ask you guys something. I've always coded on Linux, so we used other compiler. All console applications.

I'm not quite shure, but i've read some posts about the VS 2013 and some of you guys are still using 2010. Will it make any difference if i use 2013? I can find a bunch of versions, i've just downloaded the full express for desktop.

What framework you guys advise to download at this point?

Started today watching the sprite implementation videos (BG lvl lesson 20)... It will take some time to understand all this without Chili's picasso drawings :lol: I have to translate some terms, maybe it will be easier for me.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: March 7th, 2014, 12:12 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2011, 4:53 pm
Posts: 3493
Location: Japan
2013 should work fine angelicous. In my new series I'm going to use 2013 (along with some of the new C++11 features).

_________________
Chili


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Board index » Everything


 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for: